From eslee at lbl.gov Mon Jan 4 12:27:54 2010 From: eslee at lbl.gov (Eleanor Lee) Date: Mon Jan 4 12:27:58 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Radiance Job Opportunity at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Message-ID: <4B424F4A.1060303@lbl.gov> Hi Folks: As a follow-on to the informal invitation made at the Radiance 2009 Workshop, I'd like to extend an invitation to interested individuals to join a team of motivated building scientists, architects, and engineers developing new daylighting tools and technology solutions that will provide highly efficient solutions for the next generation of net zero energy buildings. The Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in Berkeley, California has a new opening in the Building Technology Department for a Radiance Senior Scientific Engineering Associate. The successful candidate will participate in the development, validation and maintenance of the next generation of facade, lighting and daylighting simulation and analysis tools and utilize these tools for the design, evaluation, and operation of innovative low-energy building solutions. Details are posted at: http://cjo.lbl.gov/details.asp?jid=23906&p=1 For an informal discussion about the opening, call Eleanor Lee (510 486 4997). To review recent projects, see: http://windows.lbl.gov/comm_perf/newyorktimes.htm http://lowenergyfacades.lbl.gov/resources.html best regards, Eleanor Lee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100104/426b0698/attachment.htm From maricanis at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 03:56:02 2010 From: maricanis at gmail.com (Marija Velickovic) Date: Tue Jan 5 03:56:27 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image Message-ID: <124b40401001050356u2e8c49d9qc892466b743ee419@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Happy New Year to all members and their families! Is there some easy 'one command' way to create Radiance image with all pixels set to some constant value? Equation like this works, where in dat file are listed pixel values pvalue -r -h +Y 9 +X 5 -d pixel_file.dat > uniform_image.hdr But I need images of various resolutions, so not much sense to create dat file with 1024x1024 or so, equal pixels as input for pvalue. Is there some way to give some constant radiance value and resolution on input of pvalue or some other program to create such images? I tried creation of small image as above and then make it bigger with pfilt, but if image is completely black (all 0 pixels) for example, pfilt can't filter it. Thanks, Marija. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100105/ec258c06/attachment.html From dbs176 at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 07:07:25 2010 From: dbs176 at gmail.com (David Smith) Date: Tue Jan 5 07:07:32 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image Message-ID: <694e132c1001050707y7f4d86bdnd9d9013233f632b2@mail.gmail.com> This script below may be on the right track. Save it as "pblank", make it executable, and put it in /usr/bin or wherever. It'll make a X by Y image with all pixels having value of VALUE. It requires Python to be installed, by the way. --Dave #! /bin/bash # pblank - make an X by Y Radiance HDR image with all pixels having values of VALUE # # Usage: # # pblank [x] [y] [value] > outfile # # by David Smith, July 2009 echo "print('$3 $3 $3 \n' * $1 * $2)" | python | pvalue -di -d -r -h -H -y $2 +x $1 From maricanis at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 07:21:48 2010 From: maricanis at gmail.com (Marija Velickovic) Date: Tue Jan 5 07:22:29 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image In-Reply-To: <694e132c1001050707y7f4d86bdnd9d9013233f632b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <694e132c1001050707y7f4d86bdnd9d9013233f632b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <124b40401001050721j1406eee8y8b2c31a47d23791c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Dave, Thanks for idea! I'm in fact using Python and trying to include in my code, generation of such images. I didn't know that command: print "a" * X in Python, will print string "a", X times; so your idea will help me a lot. Thanks again, Marija On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:07 PM, David Smith wrote: > This script below may be on the right track. Save it as "pblank", make > it executable, and put it in /usr/bin or wherever. It'll make a X by Y > image with all pixels having value of VALUE. It requires Python to be > installed, by the way. > > --Dave > > > #! /bin/bash > > # pblank - make an X by Y Radiance HDR image with all pixels having > values of VALUE > # > # Usage: > # > # pblank [x] [y] [value] > outfile > # > # by David Smith, July 2009 > > echo "print('$3 $3 $3 \n' * $1 * $2)" | python | pvalue -di -d -r -h > -H -y $2 +x $1 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100105/34236dee/attachment.htm From Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov Tue Jan 5 09:02:42 2010 From: Robert.Guglielmetti at nrel.gov (Guglielmetti, Robert) Date: Tue Jan 5 09:02:46 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image In-Reply-To: <124b40401001050356u2e8c49d9qc892466b743ee419@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Marija, You could do this with pcompos. The -b option is used for specifying the radiance: pcompos -x 1200 -y 800 -b r g b Basically, you're using pcompos but not composing anything but a background, the color of which is specified with that -b option. - Rob On 1/5/10 4:56 AM, "Marija Velickovic" wrote: > Hi, > > Happy New Year to all members and their families! > > Is there some easy 'one command' way to create Radiance image with all pixels > set to some constant value? > > Equation like this works, where in dat file are listed pixel values > pvalue -r -h +Y 9 +X 5 -d pixel_file.dat > uniform_image.hdr > > But I need images of various resolutions, so not much sense to create dat file > with 1024x1024 or so, equal pixels as input for pvalue. > > Is there some way to give some constant radiance value and resolution on input > of pvalue or some other program to create such images? > > I tried creation of small image as above and then make it bigger with pfilt, > but if image is completely black (all 0 pixels) for example, pfilt can't? > filter it. > > Thanks, > Marija. > > From jm at dmu.ac.uk Wed Jan 6 02:06:35 2010 From: jm at dmu.ac.uk (John Mardaljevic) Date: Wed Jan 6 02:06:48 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image Message-ID: <918A0865-79C8-42EF-BA62-D56C853E0F5F@dmu.ac.uk> The option of ximage seems to give the maximum radiance in any one channel rather than the RGB weighted value, whereas the 'l' option gives the expected (RGB weighted) luminance value. The -ov option reports correctly. Anyone else see this? Version RADIANCE 4.0a lastmod Fri 30 Jan 2009. -John ----------------------------------------------- Dr. John Mardaljevic Reader in Daylight Modelling Institute of Energy and Sustainable Development De Montfort University The Gateway Leicester LE1 9BH, UK +44 (0) 116 257 7972 +44 (0) 116 257 7981 (fax) jm@dmu.ac.uk http://www.iesd.dmu.ac.uk/~jm From gregoryjward at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 09:26:31 2010 From: gregoryjward at gmail.com (Greg Ward) Date: Wed Jan 6 09:24:56 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image In-Reply-To: <918A0865-79C8-42EF-BA62-D56C853E0F5F@dmu.ac.uk> References: <918A0865-79C8-42EF-BA62-D56C853E0F5F@dmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <8709742A-6B60-438B-BD61-B7598304911D@lmi.net> Hi John, You are correct -- weighting values are not applied for the reporting in ximage, corresponding to the radiant "intensity" for this pixel or area. There is no agreed-upon weighting for radiance values, only luminance, which is the reason for the different choices. You can always divide the 'l' report by 179 if you want a photometrically- weighted radiance quantity. The 'c' command reports the RGB color, but adjusted by the current exposure scale, which is not really useful as a radiometric quantity. Cheers, -Greg > From: John Mardaljevic > Date: January 6, 2010 2:06:35 AM PST > > The option of ximage seems to give the maximum radiance in > any one channel rather than the RGB weighted value, whereas the 'l' > option gives the expected (RGB weighted) luminance value. The -ov > option reports correctly. Anyone else see this? > > Version RADIANCE 4.0a lastmod Fri 30 Jan 2009. > > -John From jm at dmu.ac.uk Wed Jan 6 11:13:32 2010 From: jm at dmu.ac.uk (John Mardaljevic) Date: Wed Jan 6 11:13:46 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image Message-ID: <01A99AE8-E18C-4B44-858B-312D94659930@dmu.ac.uk> > There is no agreed-upon weighting for radiance values, only luminance Of course (duh)! I get so used to working between irradiance and illuminance using luminous efficacy models that I occasionally forget some of the R(r)adiance basics. Nonetheless, to avoid confusion in the future, might I suggest an update to the ximage manpage? Perhaps something like: Display the mean RGB radiance averaged over the area of interest. [For a single value, the mean seems less arbitrary than the maximum value for any one of the channels. Otherwise, some indication of what the current behaviour is.] l Display the photometrically-weighted RGB luminance value in the area of interest. This assumes that the image was correctly computed in terms of luminance. Then again, if I'm the only person who's been bamboozled by this, it's probably not worth the mods to the man page. -John ----------------------------------------------- Dr. John Mardaljevic Reader in Daylight Modelling Institute of Energy and Sustainable Development De Montfort University The Gateway Leicester LE1 9BH, UK +44 (0) 116 257 7972 +44 (0) 116 257 7981 (fax) jm@dmu.ac.uk http://www.iesd.dmu.ac.uk/~jm From gregoryjward at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 09:56:32 2010 From: gregoryjward at gmail.com (Greg Ward) Date: Thu Jan 7 09:56:38 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Create constant radiance image In-Reply-To: <01A99AE8-E18C-4B44-858B-312D94659930@dmu.ac.uk> References: <01A99AE8-E18C-4B44-858B-312D94659930@dmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <88177471-5EFD-4261-B89E-E6E2B78D1179@lmi.net> Hi John, I updated the ximage man page with the current behavior, which is to take the peak of the three channels for reporting of radiance. Cheers, -Greg > From: John Mardaljevic > Date: January 6, 2010 11:13:32 AM PST > >> There is no agreed-upon weighting for radiance values, only luminance > > Of course (duh)! I get so used to working between irradiance and > illuminance using luminous efficacy models that I occasionally > forget some of the R(r)adiance basics. Nonetheless, to avoid > confusion in the future, might I suggest an update to the ximage > manpage? Perhaps something like: > > Display the mean RGB radiance averaged over the area of > interest. [For a single value, the mean seems less arbitrary than > the maximum value for any one of the channels. Otherwise, some > indication of what the current behaviour is.] > l Display the photometrically-weighted RGB luminance value in the > area of interest. This assumes that the image was correctly computed > in terms of luminance. > Then again, if I'm the only person who's been bamboozled by this, > it's probably not worth the mods to the man page. > -John From dboz66 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 7 12:21:23 2010 From: dboz66 at earthlink.net (Dave Bosworth) Date: Thu Jan 7 12:21:27 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] su2rad full path name required at Xform? Message-ID: <713681.1262895683608.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hello! I have been playing with Thomas' su2rad exporter: very nice. I have one hopefully quick and easy fix. When I finish the export and run rad, I get file not found warnings from rpict, it can't locate the .sky file in the skies folder and the rad files in the objects folder. I have been having to go into the .rif file and add the full file path to these files, along with the full file path for these same files in the !xform function in the .rad file. I'm using OS X 10.5. any advice? thanks dave bosworth From rpg at rumblestrip.org Thu Jan 7 14:04:36 2010 From: rpg at rumblestrip.org (Rob Guglielmetti) Date: Thu Jan 7 14:04:38 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] su2rad full path name required at Xform? In-Reply-To: <713681.1262895683608.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <713681.1262895683608.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <629d25c6a77481079777260a88113053.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> On Thu, January 7, 2010 1:21 pm, Dave Bosworth wrote: > Hello! Howdy Dave... > I have been playing with Thomas' su2rad exporter: very nice. I have one > hopefully quick and easy fix. When I finish the export and run rad, I get > file not found warnings from rpict, it can't locate the .sky file in the > skies folder and the rad files in the objects folder. I have been having > to go into the .rif file and add the full file path to these files, along > with the full file path for these same files in the !xform function in the > .rad file. I'm using OS X 10.5. any advice? Hmmm, two things: 1. Sometimes for whatever reason people's PATH statements do not include the current directory (.) and so a reference to a file in scene/thing.rad will fail, but a reference to ./scene/thing.rad would be found. Can you confirm this? 2. Also, Thomas has a Google Code site for his su2rad project. There may be some stuff there that is helpful: http://code.google.com/p/su2rad/ From tbleicher at googlemail.com Thu Jan 7 15:07:06 2010 From: tbleicher at googlemail.com (Thomas Bleicher) Date: Thu Jan 7 15:07:09 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] su2rad full path name required at Xform? In-Reply-To: <713681.1262895683608.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <713681.1262895683608.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <89355c0f1001071507p7ae7151cy30079090fe0a5d57@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Dave Bosworth wrote: > Hello! > > I have been playing with Thomas' su2rad exporter: very nice. And still getting nicer ... >?I have one hopefully quick and easy fix. When I finish > the export and run rad, I get file not found warnings from > rpict, it can't locate the .sky file in the skies folder and > the rad files in the objects folder. Are you starting rad in the folder of the *.rif and *.rad file? The references only work when your current working directory is this "project" folder. Rob also wrote about the "." in the RAYPATH environment variable. I'm not quite sure about that because I did run my simulations using relative paths without this variable set. Maybe the default value includes the current directory and it only breaks if you have it set and not included the ".". Hope that fixes it. Thomas From dboz66 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 7 17:37:28 2010 From: dboz66 at earthlink.net (Dave Bosworth) Date: Thu Jan 7 17:37:33 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] su2rad full path name required at Xform? Message-ID: <17949254.1262914648873.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Yes, I am starting rad from the folder with the *.rif and *.rad file. And as to Rob's suggestion, if the files are prefixed with ./ then everything works fine. I could add . to RAYPATH, I would also be perfectly happy to add ./ to the print statements in my copy of the su2rad plugins, if Thomas might guide me to the appropriate module... thanks! dave -----Original Message----- >From: Thomas Bleicher >Sent: Jan 7, 2010 6:07 PM >To: Dave Bosworth , Radiance general discussion >Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] su2rad full path name required at Xform? > >On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Dave Bosworth wrote: >> Hello! >> >> I have been playing with Thomas' su2rad exporter: very nice. > >And still getting nicer ... > >>?I have one hopefully quick and easy fix. When I finish >> the export and run rad, I get file not found warnings from >> rpict, it can't locate the .sky file in the skies folder and >> the rad files in the objects folder. > >Are you starting rad in the folder of the *.rif and *.rad file? >The references only work when your current working directory >is this "project" folder. > >Rob also wrote about the "." in the RAYPATH environment >variable. I'm not quite sure about that because I did run my >simulations using relative paths without this variable set. >Maybe the default value includes the current directory and >it only breaks if you have it set and not included the ".". > >Hope that fixes it. >Thomas From dboz66 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 7 18:07:55 2010 From: dboz66 at earthlink.net (Dave Bosworth) Date: Thu Jan 7 18:07:59 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] su2rad full path name required at Xform? Message-ID: <22599523.1262916475929.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> OK, never mind: I found all the appropriate write statements in the radiancescenes.rb files and added a ./ suffix to the appropriate statements. Now everything seems to work OK. Don't know why my defaults don't have that path....I haven't done anything to them. onward and upward! dave -----Original Message----- >From: Rob Guglielmetti >Sent: Jan 7, 2010 5:04 PM >To: Dave Bosworth , Radiance general discussion >Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] su2rad full path name required at Xform? > >On Thu, January 7, 2010 1:21 pm, Dave Bosworth wrote: >> Hello! > >Howdy Dave... > >> I have been playing with Thomas' su2rad exporter: very nice. I have one >> hopefully quick and easy fix. When I finish the export and run rad, I get >> file not found warnings from rpict, it can't locate the .sky file in the >> skies folder and the rad files in the objects folder. I have been having >> to go into the .rif file and add the full file path to these files, along >> with the full file path for these same files in the !xform function in the >> .rad file. I'm using OS X 10.5. any advice? > >Hmmm, two things: > >1. Sometimes for whatever reason people's PATH statements do not include >the current directory (.) and so a reference to a file in scene/thing.rad >will fail, but a reference to ./scene/thing.rad would be found. Can you >confirm this? > >2. Also, Thomas has a Google Code site for his su2rad project. There may >be some stuff there that is helpful: > >http://code.google.com/p/su2rad/ > > > From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Mon Jan 11 04:10:16 2010 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Mon Jan 11 04:10:24 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping Message-ID: <460295.98573.qm@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear users, I am mapping a falsecolor image on a working in a room but there is still some black parts left in the image.? I have FTINY as a guard against rounding errors but it does not remove everything. As written i Axel J. tutorial I have build a .cal file with a nonzero function: nonzero(r,g,b) = if(max(r,max(g,b))-FTINY, 1, 0); fc_u = -(Py-16.6)/12.8; fc_v = (Px-0.2)/12.8; Any idea of how to remove the remaining black spots in the image? The images can be seen at: http://perhaugaard.blogspot.com/2010/01/removing-black-parts-in-imagemapping-in.html Happy new year /Per Find din nye laptop p? kelkoo.dk. Se de gode tilbud her - http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/mm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100111/b1765e26/attachment.html From andrew.mcneil at arup.com Mon Jan 11 10:19:33 2010 From: andrew.mcneil at arup.com (Andrew McNeil) Date: Mon Jan 11 10:19:52 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping In-Reply-To: <460295.98573.qm@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Per, Perhaps you are experiencing rounding error larger than FTINY. I?d suggest replacing FTINY with a larger value (ie 2e-3) and seeing if black spots reduce. A bit of trial and error might be necessary. If that doesn?t work can you send more scene info? I?d like to see your falsecolor statement, your colorpict and mixpict material definitions and perhaps you could post your contour image in hdr format. Best, Andy On 1/11/10 4:10 AM, "Per Haugaard" wrote: > Dear users, > > I am mapping a falsecolor image on a working in a room but there is still some > black parts left in the image. I have FTINY as a guard against rounding > errors but it does not remove everything. > > As written i Axel J. tutorial I have build a ..cal file with a nonzero > function: > > nonzero(r,g,b) = if(max(r,max(g,b))-FTINY, 1, 0); > fc_u = -(Py-16.6)/12.8; > fc_v = (Px-0.2)/12.8; > > Any idea of how to remove the remaining black spots in the image? > > The images can be seen at: > http://perhaugaard.blogspot.com/2010/01/removing-black-parts-in-imagemapping-i > n.html > > > Happy new year > > /Per > > > > > Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD > TV ! > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general ____________________________________________________________ Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100111/7327647d/attachment.htm From tbleicher at googlemail.com Tue Jan 12 01:03:37 2010 From: tbleicher at googlemail.com (Thomas Bleicher) Date: Tue Jan 12 01:03:42 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping In-Reply-To: <460295.98573.qm@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <460295.98573.qm@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89355c0f1001120103h2211cd8dk64db3a886bea52d5@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Per Haugaard wrote: > > Dear users, > > I am mapping a falsecolor image on a working in a room but there is still some black parts left in the image. > I have FTINY as a guard against rounding errors but it does not remove everything. As Andy already wrote, FTINY is a very small value to avoid rounding errors. You just want to identify pixels which are black (or nearly black) and the red, green and blue colours in the falsecolor image. You can use ximage or pvalue to work out the average value of a black pixel and the intensity of the colours. I'd expect that 0.1 as a treshold value will give you better results; you might even go up to 0.5 given that the contour lines are rather intense. Regards, Thomas From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tue Jan 12 01:09:40 2010 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Tue Jan 12 01:09:45 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping Message-ID: <957699.45447.qm@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi Andrew, Thank you for your reply. Nothing happens when I play with the FTINY. The image remains the same if I remove FTINY and also if I change the expecting rounding error to 2e-3 or larger. I guess the error might be elsewhere. Below you will find the input for the illum and falsecolor image. # calculating illumince values on a virtual plan using vwrays vwrays -x 600 -y 600 -vf views/kontor_ned.vp \ | rcalc -e '$1=$1; $2=$2; $3=0.8; $4=$4; $5=$5; $6=1' \ | rtrace -ab 3 -aa 0.1 -ar 128 -ad 512 -as 256 -fac -w -I -ov `vwrays -d -vf views/kontor_ned.vp -x 600 -y 600` \ octrees/kontor_CIE.oct > images/vwrays_illum.pic # making falsecolor image of the illuminace image falsecolor -n 10 -s 1000 -lw 0 -cl -i images/vwrays_illum.pic > images/vwrays_illum_falsecolor.pic Below is the viewfile kontor_ned.vp rview -vtl -vp 6.4 8.4 2.79 -vd 0 0 -1 -vu 1 0 0 -vh 16.6 -vv 12.8 -vo 0 -va 0 -vs 0 -vl 0 Below is the input for the working plane image: void colorpict fc_val 7 red green blue images/vwrays_illum_falsecolor.pic fc_4.cal fc_u fc_v 0 0 fc_val glow fc_glow 0 0 4 10 10 10 0 fc_glow polygon office.working_plane 0 0 12 ??? ???????????????? 0.2??? ?????????????? 0.2??? ???????????????? 0.8 ??? ???????????????? 13.0??? ?????????????? 0.2??? ???????????????? 0.8 ??? ???????????????? 13.0??? ????????????? 16.8??? ???????????????? 0.8 ??? ???????????????? 0.2??? ????????????? 16.8??? ???????????????? 0.8 void mixpict mp 7 fc_glow void nonzero images/vwrays_illum_falsecolor.pic fc_4.cal fc_u fc_v 0 0 mp polygon office.working_plane.2 0 0 12 ??????????????????????? 0.2?????????????????? 0.2?????????????????????? 0.8 ??????????????????????? 13.0????????????????? 0.2?????????????????????? 0.8 ??????????????????????? 13.0???????????????? 16.8?????????????????????? 0.8 ??????????????????????? 0.2????????????????? 16.8?????????????????????? 0.8 And below is the fc_4.cal file nonzero(r,g,b) = if(max(r,max(g,b))-FTINY, 1, 0); fc_u = -(Py-16.6)/12.8; fc_v = (Px-0.2)/12.8; I have not been working with HDR images. Maybe you can update on how to easily convert from pic-files to hdr-files in Linux, so I can upload these for illustration purposes. Best regards Per, --- Den man 11/1/10 skrev Andrew McNeil : Fra: Andrew McNeil Emne: Re: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping Til: perhaugaard@yahoo.dk, "Radiance general discussion" Dato: mandag 11. januar 2010 19.19 Re: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping Hi Per, Perhaps you are experiencing rounding error larger than FTINY. ?I?d suggest replacing FTINY with a larger value (ie 2e-3) and seeing if black spots reduce. ?A bit of trial and error might be necessary. If that doesn?t work can you send more scene info? ?I?d like to see your falsecolor statement, your colorpict and mixpict material definitions and perhaps you could post your contour image in hdr format. Best, Andy On 1/11/10 4:10 AM, "Per Haugaard" wrote: Dear users, I am mapping a falsecolor image on a working in a room but there is still some black parts left in the image. ?I have FTINY as a guard against rounding errors but it does not remove everything. As written i Axel J. tutorial I have build a ..cal file with a nonzero function: nonzero(r,g,b) = if(max(r,max(g,b))-FTINY, 1, 0); fc_u = -(Py-16.6)/12.8; fc_v = (Px-0.2)/12.8; Any idea of how to remove the remaining black spots in the image? The images can be seen at: http://perhaugaard.blogspot.com/2010/01/removing-black-parts-in-imagemapping-in.html Happy new year /Per ? ?Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV ! _______________________________________________ Radiance-general mailing list Radiance-general@radiance-online.org http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general ____________________________________________________________ Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD TV! Se her http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/lcd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100112/f7a3968c/attachment.html From tbleicher at googlemail.com Tue Jan 12 02:55:26 2010 From: tbleicher at googlemail.com (Thomas Bleicher) Date: Tue Jan 12 02:55:31 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping In-Reply-To: <957699.45447.qm@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <957699.45447.qm@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89355c0f1001120255x2fdb6e38mafbba1443c49fe4f@mail.gmail.com> Per. I still think that your problem is the value at which mixfunc decides if the value from the fc image should be used or not (based on your non-zero function). You can try and replace the function once with nonzero(r,g,b) = 1 and then with nonzero(r,g,b) = 0 In the first case you should get the whole surface in black (because every pixel is used), in the second you should see nothing at all. (Mind you, I haven't tested these functions; I only assume they work!) Also use phisto on your falsecolor image to see the actual values of the black pixels. It looks like there is a range of "dark grey" instead of black. If you convert your image to tiff or ppm, edit the grey values to black in Photoshop and convert it back you might have a better result already. I'm sure there is also a way to do this with Radiance tools but I don't have one ready. On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Per Haugaard wrote: > I have not been working with HDR images. Maybe you can update on how to > easily convert from pic-files to hdr-files in Linux, so I can upload these > for illustration purposes. > > *.pic files are *.hdr images. The extension is just a convention and since the world has adopted *.hdr for this type of images the Radiance community is moving to this extension, too. Regards, Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100112/0f60e7dc/attachment.htm From perhaugaard at yahoo.dk Tue Jan 12 04:12:23 2010 From: perhaugaard at yahoo.dk (Per Haugaard) Date: Tue Jan 12 04:12:32 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping In-Reply-To: <89355c0f1001120255x2fdb6e38mafbba1443c49fe4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <291007.81696.qm@web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi Thomas, I tested the nonzero part of your mail. nonzero(r,g,b) = 1; returns the falsecolor image on the workingplane and nonzero(r,g,b) = 0; returns the image 3 on http://perhaugaard.blogspot.com/. The error is elsewhere or? /Per --- Den tirs 12/1/10 skrev Thomas Bleicher : Fra: Thomas Bleicher Emne: Re: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping Til: perhaugaard@yahoo.dk, "Radiance general discussion" Dato: tirsdag 12. januar 2010 11.55 Per. I still think that your problem is the value at which mixfunc decides if the value from the fc image should be used or not (based on your non-zero function). You can try and replace the function once with nonzero(r,g,b) = 1 and then with nonzero(r,g,b) = 0 In the first case you should get the whole surface in black (because every pixel is used), in the second you should see nothing at all. (Mind you, I haven't tested these functions; I only assume they work!) Also use phisto on your falsecolor image to see the actual values of the black pixels. It looks like there is a range of "dark grey" instead of black. If you convert your image to tiff or ppm, edit the grey values to black in Photoshop and convert it back you might have a better result already. I'm sure there is also a way to do this with Radiance tools but I don't have one ready. On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Per Haugaard wrote: I have not been working with HDR images. Maybe you can update on how to easily convert from pic-files to hdr-files in Linux, so I can upload these for illustration purposes. *.pic files are *.hdr images. The extension is just a convention and since the world has adopted *.hdr for this type of images the Radiance community is moving to this extension, too. Regards, Thomas ________________________________________________________ Audi, Fiat, Peugeot, Skoda, Porsche, Toyota, Ford - Kelkoo har brugte biler til en hver smag! Klik her for at sammenligne priser.(http://dk.yahoo.com/r/pat/mmb) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100112/822e61f4/attachment.html From andrew.mcneil at arup.com Tue Jan 12 10:39:10 2010 From: andrew.mcneil at arup.com (Andrew McNeil) Date: Tue Jan 12 10:39:30 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping In-Reply-To: <957699.45447.qm@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Per, You have two workplane polygons in your scene, one with material fc_glow and one with material mp. The blotches are a result of radiance using the mixpict polygon for some rays and the false color polygon for others. Remove the polygon with material fc_glow from your scene and your problem should be solved. Andy On 1/12/10 1:09 AM, "Per Haugaard" wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > Thank you for your reply. Nothing happens when I play with the FTINY. The > image remains the same if I remove FTINY and also if I change the expecting > rounding error to 2e-3 or larger. I guess the error might be elsewhere. > > Below you will find the input for the illum and falsecolor image. > > # calculating illumince values on a virtual plan using vwrays > vwrays -x 600 -y 600 -vf views/kontor_ned.vp \ > | rcalc -e '$1=$1; $2=$2; $3=0.8; $4=$4; $5=$5; $6=1' \ > | rtrace -ab 3 -aa 0.1 -ar 128 -ad 512 -as 256 -fac -w -I -ov `vwrays -d -vf > views/kontor_ned.vp -x 600 -y 600` \ > octrees/kontor_CIE.oct > images/vwrays_illum.pic > > # making falsecolor image of the illuminace image > falsecolor -n 10 -s 1000 -lw 0 -cl -i images/vwrays_illum.pic > > images/vwrays_illum_falsecolor.pic > > Below is the viewfile kontor_ned.vp > > rview -vtl -vp 6.4 8.4 2.79 -vd 0 0 -1 -vu 1 0 0 -vh 16.6 -vv 12.8 -vo 0 -va 0 > -vs 0 -vl 0 > > Below is the input for the working plane image: > > void colorpict fc_val > 7 red green blue images/vwrays_illum_falsecolor.pic fc_4.cal fc_u fc_v > 0 > 0 > > fc_val glow fc_glow > 0 > 0 > 4 10 10 10 0 > > fc_glow polygon office.working_plane > 0 > 0 > 12 > 0.2 0.2 0.8 > 13.0 0.2 0.8 > 13.0 16.8 0.8 > 0.2 16.8 0.8 > > void mixpict mp > 7 fc_glow void nonzero images/vwrays_illum_falsecolor.pic fc_4.cal fc_u fc_v > 0 > 0 > > mp polygon office.working_plane.2 > 0 > 0 > 12 > 0.2 0.2 0.8 > 13.0 0.2 0.8 > 13.0 16.8 0.8 > 0.2 16.8 0.8 > > And below is the fc_4.cal file > > nonzero(r,g,b) = if(max(r,max(g,b))-FTINY, 1, 0); > fc_u = -(Py-16.6)/12.8; > fc_v = (Px-0.2)/12.8; > > I have not been working with HDR images. Maybe you can update on how to easily > convert from pic-files to hdr-files in Linux, so I can upload these for > illustration purposes. > > Best regards > > Per, > > --- Den man 11/1/10 skrev Andrew McNeil : >> >> Fra: Andrew McNeil >> Emne: Re: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping >> Til: perhaugaard@yahoo.dk, "Radiance general discussion" >> >> Dato: mandag 11. januar 2010 19.19 >> >> Re: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping Hi Per, >> >> Perhaps you are experiencing rounding error larger than FTINY. I?d suggest >> replacing FTINY with a larger value (ie 2e-3) and seeing if black spots >> reduce. A bit of trial and error might be necessary. >> >> If that doesn?t work can you send more scene info? I?d like to see your >> falsecolor statement, your colorpict and mixpict material definitions and >> perhaps you could post your contour image in hdr format. >> >> Best, >> Andy >> >> >> On 1/11/10 4:10 AM, "Per Haugaard" wrote: >> >>> Dear users, >>> >>> I am mapping a falsecolor image on a working in a room but there is still >>> some black parts left in the image. I have FTINY as a guard against >>> rounding errors but it does not remove everything. >>> >>> As written i Axel J. tutorial I have build a ..cal file with a nonzero >>> function: >>> >>> nonzero(r,g,b) = if(max(r,max(g,b))-FTINY, 1, 0); >>> fc_u = -(Py-16.6)/12.8; >>> fc_v = (Px-0.2)/12.8; >>> >>> Any idea of how to remove the remaining black spots in the image? >>> >>> The images can be seen at: >>> http://perhaugaard.blogspot.com/2010/01/removing-black-parts-in-imagemapping >>> -in.html >>> >>> >>> Happy new year >>> >>> /Per >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Tr?nger du til at se det store billede? Kelkoo giver dig gode tilbud p? LCD >>> TV ! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Radiance-general mailing list >>> Radiance-general@radiance-online.org >>> http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business >>> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Skal du k?be ny bil? Sammenlign priser p? brugte biler med Kelkoo og find >>> et godt tilbud! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100112/e8188574/attachment.htm From jdlenard at deluminaelab.com Wed Jan 13 08:06:13 2010 From: jdlenard at deluminaelab.com (jeando) Date: Wed Jan 13 08:07:11 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] RadSunpath tool Message-ID: <4B4DEF75.4030608@deluminaelab.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100113/76db7841/attachment.html From grobe at gmx.net Wed Jan 13 19:16:26 2010 From: grobe at gmx.net (Lars O. Grobe) Date: Wed Jan 13 19:16:35 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Removing black areas in imagemapping In-Reply-To: <89355c0f1001120255x2fdb6e38mafbba1443c49fe4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <957699.45447.qm@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <89355c0f1001120255x2fdb6e38mafbba1443c49fe4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B4E8C8A.6090509@gmx.net> Hi! > Also use phisto on your falsecolor image to see the > actual values of the black pixels. It looks like there > is a range of "dark grey" instead of black. If you convert > your image to tiff or ppm, edit the grey values to black > in Photoshop and convert it back you might have a > better result already. I'm sure there is also a way to > do this with Radiance tools but I don't have one ready. I'd use pcomb: pcomb -e 't=0.05; c=(.265074126*ri(1) + .670114631*gi(1) + .064811243*bi(1))-t; ro=if( c, ri(1), 0); go=if( c, gi(1), 0); bo=if( c, bi(1), 0);' -o image.hdr | ximage In this example, t is the treshold (you have to adjust this) and image.hdr is the input. c is the condition, if the grey value of a pixel is > t, the input pixel is written, else rgb(0,0,0). There are even slightly simpler ways to do it, still pcomb -e is the generic way for me to calculate on images. Cheers, Lars. From hujia06 at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 11:01:08 2010 From: hujia06 at gmail.com (Hu,Jia) Date: Thu Jan 14 11:01:14 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] test file Message-ID: <3ccbd68d1001141101g3c398d40ue1b4bc5e601310fd@mail.gmail.com> Hello all: I use radiance to simulate *the same model twice*. But the result (sensor point illuminance) is different. Could anyone know the reason? Thank you in advance, Jia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100114/db588c1b/attachment.htm From andrew.mcneil at arup.com Thu Jan 14 11:36:44 2010 From: andrew.mcneil at arup.com (Andrew McNeil) Date: Thu Jan 14 11:37:39 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] test file In-Reply-To: <3ccbd68d1001141101g3c398d40ue1b4bc5e601310fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Jia, There will always be some difference between two identical simulations in Radiance. The monte carlo sampling method used by radiance is like rolling the dice several times. If your sample density is high enough your results for identical simulations will exhibit minor differences. However with a low sampling density a few lucky hits or misses can skew the simulation results significantly. The radiance simulation parameters allow us to adjust the sampling density and other parameters to improve the correlation of the results. Trouble is there is no single set of parameter settings that works for every model. To allow the group to best help you refine your simulation parameters you should send the following: 1 ? The radiance commands you used to run your simulation. 2 ? The results of your simulations. 3 ? A description of your model 4 ? A rendering if you have one (proper etiquette is to upload the image to a website and include a link in your email to the list). Best, Andy On 1/14/10 11:01 AM, "Hu,Jia" wrote: > Hello all: > ? > I use radiance to simulate the same model twice. But the result (sensor point > illuminance) is different. Could anyone know the reason? > ? > Thank you in advance, > ? > Jia > ? > ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general ____________________________________________________________ Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100114/55926b5e/attachment.html From hujia06 at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 08:37:49 2010 From: hujia06 at gmail.com (Hu,Jia) Date: Sat Jan 16 08:38:12 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] test file In-Reply-To: References: <3ccbd68d1001141101g3c398d40ue1b4bc5e601310fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ccbd68d1001160837l2dcde909h9c27019cdc23927d@mail.gmail.com> Hello Andy: Sorry for my late reply. I am new for Radiance and have to learn more to reply you. Before discussing the previous question, could I ask how I can open the text editor and save as file with extension like .rad after I install Ubuntu 9.10 because I am unfamiliar with Ubuntu (Linux)? For the question in my last email, I asked that because someone did some simulations before but the results seems weird. In those simulations, two identical small offices are developed with only one difference. In one office, the angles of the blinds are 0 degree. For another, the windows are separated into three sections (the height for each section is the same). The blinds with 0 degree are also the same for each section. The illuminance of the sensor points are calculated for the two offices. Theoretically, the illuminance should be identical or quite similar. But as I said in my last email, the illuminance shows a big difference. In addition to your explanation, is that right another possible reason is the computer hardware difference. For example, one computer may calculate 5+3=8, while another calculates 5+3=7.8888. If possible, Is there any test file to test the accuracy of computer before running Radiance? Thanks. Jia On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Andrew McNeil wrote: > Jia, > > There will always be some difference between two identical simulations in > Radiance. The monte carlo sampling method used by radiance is like rolling > the dice several times. If your sample density is high enough your results > for identical simulations will exhibit minor differences. However with a > low sampling density a few lucky hits or misses can skew the simulation > results significantly. > > The radiance simulation parameters allow us to adjust the sampling density > and other parameters to improve the correlation of the results. Trouble is > there is no single set of parameter settings that works for every model. > > To allow the group to best help you refine your simulation parameters you > should send the following: > 1 ? The radiance commands you used to run your simulation. > 2 ? The results of your simulations. > 3 ? A description of your model > 4 ? A rendering if you have one (proper etiquette is to upload the image to > a website and include a link in your email to the list). > > Best, > Andy > > > > On 1/14/10 11:01 AM, "Hu,Jia" wrote: > > Hello all: > > I use radiance to simulate *the same model twice*. But the result (sensor > point illuminance) is different. Could anyone know the reason? > > Thank you in advance, > > Jia > > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > > ____________________________________________________________ > Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business > systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses > > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100116/35b7d549/attachment.htm From mamand at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 09:13:12 2010 From: mamand at gmail.com (Maria Manda) Date: Sat Jan 16 09:13:15 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Installing radiance in Ubuntu Message-ID: Hello all: I am very new to ubuntu and I am trying to install radiance to it. How can i do it? I already did some things that I reed in the internet but I cannot see Radiance in the Installed software list. Thanks a lot in advance. maria -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100116/3222ee90/attachment.html From sotos.enveng at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 09:53:55 2010 From: sotos.enveng at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-7?B?0/n03vHn8iDQ4fDh7fT57d/v9Q==?=) Date: Sat Jan 16 09:53:59 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Installing radiance in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92f99fb41001160953m14b06c4dkd677de184c50be7b@mail.gmail.com> Hello Maria, if you have updated your repositories, search for radiance and it will appear. After marking it for installation the system will do the rest on its own. If you are still in Chania/Crete i can help you even more. Bye Sotiris 2010/1/16 Maria Manda > Hello all: > I am very new to ubuntu and I am trying to install radiance to it. How can > i do it? > I already did some things that I reed in the internet but I cannot see > Radiance in the Installed software list. > > Thanks a lot in advance. > > maria > > > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100116/d0177d7f/attachment.htm From mamand at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 13:04:11 2010 From: mamand at gmail.com (Maria Manda) Date: Sat Jan 16 13:04:14 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Installing radiance in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <92f99fb41001160953m14b06c4dkd677de184c50be7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <92f99fb41001160953m14b06c4dkd677de184c50be7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Sotiri, I would appreciate a lot if we can meet! I am in Chania. Please let me know when is convenient for you. Meanwhile I cannot find the repositories in order to update them. How can Ido this? Thanks, Maria 2010/1/16 ??????? ??????????? > Hello Maria, > > if you have updated your repositories, search for radiance and it will > appear. After marking it for installation the system will do the rest on its > own. > > If you are still in Chania/Crete i can help you even more. > > Bye > > Sotiris > > 2010/1/16 Maria Manda > >> Hello all: >> I am very new to ubuntu and I am trying to install radiance to it. How can >> i do it? >> I already did some things that I reed in the internet but I cannot see >> Radiance in the Installed software list. >> >> Thanks a lot in advance. >> >> maria >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Radiance-general mailing list >> Radiance-general@radiance-online.org >> http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100116/42289aaf/attachment.html From tbleicher at googlemail.com Sun Jan 17 02:58:18 2010 From: tbleicher at googlemail.com (Thomas Bleicher) Date: Sun Jan 17 02:58:23 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] test file In-Reply-To: <3ccbd68d1001160837l2dcde909h9c27019cdc23927d@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ccbd68d1001141101g3c398d40ue1b4bc5e601310fd@mail.gmail.com> <3ccbd68d1001160837l2dcde909h9c27019cdc23927d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <89355c0f1001170258s2d784101m82fb6a183eb1135d@mail.gmail.com> Jia. See further answers within ... On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Hu,Jia wrote: > Hello Andy: > > Sorry for my late reply. I am new for Radiance and have to learn more to > reply you.? Before discussing the previous question,?? could I ask?how I > can?open the text editor and save as file with extension like .rad after I > install Ubuntu 9.10 because?I am unfamiliar with Ubuntu (Linux)? I currently don't have an Ubuntu system installed but I think this still applies: > Gedit is the default Ubuntu text editor, which you can launch by clicking > Applications->Accessories->Text Editor on the desktop menu system. When you save files always make sure that you save in plain text (*.txt). > For the question in my last email, I asked that?because someone > did?some simulations before but the results seems weird.?In those > simulations,? two identical small offices are developed with only one > difference.?In one office,?the angles of the blinds are 0 degree. For > another, the?windows are?separated into?three sections (the height > for each section is the same).?The blinds with 0 degree?are also the > same for each section. The illuminance of the?sensor points are > calculated for the two offices.?Theoretically, the illuminance should > be identical or quite similar. But as I said in my last email, the > illuminance shows a big difference. As Andy said, without details about the rendering parameters and the scene/window geometry it's hard to tell why the values are so different. Scenes with blinds are sensitive to the right rendering parameters because you have to account for multiple reflections to achieve satisfactory results. If the scenes were rendered with settings that are not accurate enough you will get largely differing results. Another option is that the two scenes had different sky settings which will also result in different (absolute) illuminance values. > In addition to your explanation, is that right another possible reason is > the computer hardware difference. For example, one computer may calculate > 5+3=8, while another calculates 5+3=7.8888.??If possible,??Is there any test > file to test the accuracy of computer before running Radiance? Radiance was written to be usable on multiple platforms. There is a built in tolerance for rounding errors which takes care of the above situations. However, you can get different results (to the point where the calculations are untrustworthy) if you apply very strong optimisation options when compiling the binaries. I assume that you have used the binaries from the Debian/Ubuntu distribution provided by Bernd Zeimetz so this should not be the cause of your problem. There is no standard test scenario for Radiance. I think you can install example scenes in Ubuntu as a separate package. Some of these are also discussed the book "Rendering with Radiance". Once you have Radiance running (i.e. it produces images that look about right) it's hard to verify the accuracy because each rendering depends on the scene complexity and selected rendering parameters. Basically you have to do a set of verification renderings with changing settings until you have shown that your error is within a certain limit. I also used other lighting simulation apps to check that my results are at least in the same order of magnitude (especially when artificial lighting is involved). Mark Stock has written a benchmark scene which you can use to test your installation. It will run for a few hours, though. It renders a scene at high quality settings (for a picture output) and if your result looks like the (tiny) image on his page Radiance works fine. http://markjstock.org/pages/rad_bench.html Regards, Thomas From jacobs.axel at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 06:04:43 2010 From: jacobs.axel at gmail.com (Axel Jacobs) Date: Sun Jan 17 05:58:09 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Understanding rtcontrib In-Reply-To: <4b31255b.aa13f30a.0136.ffffc149SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4b31255b.aa13f30a.0136.ffffc149SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4B5318FB.90604@gmail.com> Dear all, I've been reading some of the very interesting presentations from the last Radiance workshop and am now keen on finally getting to the bottom of this rtcontrib thing. My aim is to do Dynamic Daylight Simulations, DDS, using rtcontrib rather than DaySim. As I am going along, I am preparing more material for the Advanced Tutorial. A usual, the notes advance at a leisurely pace, trying to make one little mistake or discovery a time, rather than doing them all at once. I have put up some very early notes (really only just scribble with some images) here: http://luminance.londonmet.ac.uk/pickup/rtcontrib_lesson.html and would be grateful for any feedback. This is what's there at the moment: - show that rpict is simply a convenient way of calling rtrace to produce an image - show that rtcontrib is a souped-up version of rtrace (bear with me before banging your head against the wall over this one) - show how rtcontrib produces individual images based on light source modifiers - show how this can be extended to different 'zones' using binning, e.g. for daylight coefficients I have not looked at the mkillum-like functionality of rtcontrib yet (pseudo-forward-raytracer?), and the model you see in the images doesn't even have a window pane. All images under a glow sky (not the ones with circular 11deg light sources) have an overcast distribution. Eventually, this should probably be a simple glow without any distribution assigned to it, but I've used a gensky material for now to be able to compare the absolute values of the combined results which should match the rpict ones. The big show stopper so far is that I don't get the absolute values right for a glow sky with Tregenza subdivisions. You will also see just how weird the sky hemisphere looks in this simulation after the 145 patches have been combined. Any hints are very welcome. Cheers Axel From hujia06 at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 08:30:26 2010 From: hujia06 at gmail.com (Hu,Jia) Date: Sun Jan 17 08:30:33 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] test file In-Reply-To: <89355c0f1001170258s2d784101m82fb6a183eb1135d@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ccbd68d1001141101g3c398d40ue1b4bc5e601310fd@mail.gmail.com> <3ccbd68d1001160837l2dcde909h9c27019cdc23927d@mail.gmail.com> <89355c0f1001170258s2d784101m82fb6a183eb1135d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ccbd68d1001170830g68eeeafaie8d18f557667ec59@mail.gmail.com> Thank you for clarification. Is there any material for novice besides reference listed in this website: http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/? Jia On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Thomas Bleicher wrote: > Jia. > > See further answers within ... > > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Hu,Jia wrote: > > Hello Andy: > > > > Sorry for my late reply. I am new for Radiance and have to learn more to > > reply you. Before discussing the previous question, could I ask how I > > can open the text editor and save as file with extension like .rad after > I > > install Ubuntu 9.10 because I am unfamiliar with Ubuntu (Linux)? > > I currently don't have an Ubuntu system installed but I think this still > applies: > > > Gedit is the default Ubuntu text editor, which you can launch by clicking > > Applications->Accessories->Text Editor on the desktop menu system. > > When you save files always make sure that you save in plain > text (*.txt). > > > For the question in my last email, I asked that because someone > > did some simulations before but the results seems weird. In those > > simulations, two identical small offices are developed with only one > > difference. In one office, the angles of the blinds are 0 degree. For > > another, the windows are separated into three sections (the height > > for each section is the same). The blinds with 0 degree are also the > > same for each section. The illuminance of the sensor points are > > calculated for the two offices. Theoretically, the illuminance should > > be identical or quite similar. But as I said in my last email, the > > illuminance shows a big difference. > > As Andy said, without details about the rendering parameters and > the scene/window geometry it's hard to tell why the values are so > different. Scenes with blinds are sensitive to the right rendering > parameters because you have to account for multiple reflections > to achieve satisfactory results. If the scenes were rendered with > settings that are not accurate enough you will get largely differing > results. > > Another option is that the two scenes had different sky settings > which will also result in different (absolute) illuminance values. > > > In addition to your explanation, is that right another possible reason is > > the computer hardware difference. For example, one computer may calculate > > 5+3=8, while another calculates 5+3=7.8888. If possible, Is there any > test > > file to test the accuracy of computer before running Radiance? > > Radiance was written to be usable on multiple platforms. There > is a built in tolerance for rounding errors which takes care of the > above situations. However, you can get different results (to the > point where the calculations are untrustworthy) if you apply very > strong optimisation options when compiling the binaries. I assume > that you have used the binaries from the Debian/Ubuntu distribution > provided by Bernd Zeimetz so this should not be the cause of > your problem. > > There is no standard test scenario for Radiance. I think you can > install example scenes in Ubuntu as a separate package. Some > of these are also discussed the book "Rendering with Radiance". > > Once you have Radiance running (i.e. it produces images that look > about right) it's hard to verify the accuracy because each rendering > depends on the scene complexity and selected rendering parameters. > Basically you have to do a set of verification renderings with changing > settings until you have shown that your error is within a certain limit. > > I also used other lighting simulation apps to check that my > results are at least in the same order of magnitude (especially > when artificial lighting is involved). > > Mark Stock has written a benchmark scene which you can use > to test your installation. It will run for a few hours, though. It renders > a scene at high quality settings (for a picture output) and if your > result looks like the (tiny) image on his page Radiance works fine. > > http://markjstock.org/pages/rad_bench.html > > Regards, > Thomas > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100117/946b5054/attachment-0001.htm From tbleicher at googlemail.com Sun Jan 17 15:07:00 2010 From: tbleicher at googlemail.com (Thomas Bleicher) Date: Sun Jan 17 15:07:03 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] test file In-Reply-To: <3ccbd68d1001170830g68eeeafaie8d18f557667ec59@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ccbd68d1001141101g3c398d40ue1b4bc5e601310fd@mail.gmail.com> <3ccbd68d1001160837l2dcde909h9c27019cdc23927d@mail.gmail.com> <89355c0f1001170258s2d784101m82fb6a183eb1135d@mail.gmail.com> <3ccbd68d1001170830g68eeeafaie8d18f557667ec59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <89355c0f1001171507h9b77626ra7add492a5b532a7@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Hu,Jia wrote: > Thank you for clarification. Is there any material for novice > besides?reference listed in this website: http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/? Axel Jacobs has written some excellent tutorials (and is still adding more). http://luminance.londonmet.ac.uk/learnix/docs.shtml Regards, Thomas From hujia06 at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 15:33:54 2010 From: hujia06 at gmail.com (Hu,Jia) Date: Sun Jan 17 15:33:58 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] test file In-Reply-To: <89355c0f1001171507h9b77626ra7add492a5b532a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ccbd68d1001141101g3c398d40ue1b4bc5e601310fd@mail.gmail.com> <3ccbd68d1001160837l2dcde909h9c27019cdc23927d@mail.gmail.com> <89355c0f1001170258s2d784101m82fb6a183eb1135d@mail.gmail.com> <3ccbd68d1001170830g68eeeafaie8d18f557667ec59@mail.gmail.com> <89355c0f1001171507h9b77626ra7add492a5b532a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ccbd68d1001171533gfa9afc8l93a8f9a6c730d861@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, that is very helpful On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Thomas Bleicher wrote: > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Hu,Jia wrote: > > Thank you for clarification. Is there any material for novice > > besides reference listed in this website: > http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/? > > Axel Jacobs has written some excellent tutorials (and is still adding > more). > > http://luminance.londonmet.ac.uk/learnix/docs.shtml > > Regards, > Thomas > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100117/7d74de05/attachment.html From kkonis at berkeley.edu Thu Jan 21 09:45:54 2010 From: kkonis at berkeley.edu (kkonis@berkeley.edu) Date: Thu Jan 21 09:45:57 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric as a TRANS material type Message-ID: Dear list, I am trying to describe a nominally "white" roller shade fabric with a 3% openness factor as a trans material type. I don't have a real fabric on hand to measure, I'm just trying to make sure i understand the material definition parameters and then to do some studies varying the openness factor of a hypothetical woven roller shade material. 1) I'm curious to know if by setting parameter A7 to 1 i am achieving my desired goal of representing a shading fabric that acts as an opaque sieve (e.g. a cheese-grater: light passes only through the 3% of the surface which is void (my interpretation is that diffuse transmission requires some portion of incident light to pass through the threads) -any comments on the below process and resulting trans description would be appreciated....... # USING THIS FORMULA from RWR and previous email discussions: for the trans material: A7=Ts / ( Td+Ts ) A6=( Td+Ts ) / ( Rd+Td+Ts ) A5=Sr A4=Rs A3=Cb / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) A2=Cg / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) A1=Cr / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) # INPUTS Td = 0 # ASSUME no diffuse transmission (e.g. fabric threads are totally opaque) Ts = 0.03 # ASSUME that (3% openness factor of shade "weave") means fraction of light transmitted as beam (e.g. not scattered diffusely) = 0.03 Sr = 0 Rs = 0 Cb = 0.7 # Nominally "white" fabric surface (reflects 70% of incident visible light?) Cg = 0.7 Cr = 0.7 # CALCS A7 = (0.03) / (0 + 0.03) = 1 A6 = (0 + 0.03) / (0.7 + 0 + 0.03) = 0.0411 A5 = 0 A4 = 0 A3 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 A2 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 A1 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 # RESULT void trans my_shade 0 0 7 0.73 0.73 0.73 0 0 0.041 1 thanks, Kyle Konis PhD Student UC Berkeley From rpg at rumblestrip.org Thu Jan 21 10:59:18 2010 From: rpg at rumblestrip.org (Rob Guglielmetti) Date: Thu Jan 21 10:59:39 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric as a TRANS material type In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> Hi Kyle, I am not at all the materials measurement/definition guru on this list, but I do have some comments. First off, you should not use .03 for specular transmittance based on the openness factor. You should specify the transmittance. Have a look at the product specs for the shadecloth; somewhere there should be a reporting (however roughly it may have been estimated) for the transmittance of the shade. Next, even though in theory the holes are allowing light to pass straight through, there will be some scattering at that interface due to the weave (especially in the case of your white colored shade), so there will be some diffuse component to this material. And therein lies the rub: figuring out how much of a diffuse component... I recommend finding out the transmittance of the cloth, and than taking some fraction of that and putting that into the diffuse transmittance portion of the material definition. For example, if the shade has a transmittance of 20%, maybe specify Td = .05 and Ts = .15. I'd also recommend getting a sample; even if you can't measure it, you could at least observe it under different lighting conditions and then mix and match Td and Ts until you achieve L^ar (looks about right). =8-) - Rob On Thu, January 21, 2010 10:45 am, kkonis@berkeley.edu wrote: > Dear list, > > I am trying to describe a nominally "white" roller shade fabric with a > 3% openness factor as a trans material type. > > I don't have a real fabric on hand to measure, I'm just trying to make > sure i understand the material definition parameters and then to do > some studies varying the openness factor of a hypothetical woven > roller shade material. > > 1) I'm curious to know if by setting parameter A7 to 1 i am achieving > my desired goal of representing a shading fabric that acts as an > opaque sieve (e.g. a cheese-grater: light passes only through the 3% of > the surface > which is void > (my interpretation is that diffuse transmission requires some portion > of incident light to pass through the threads) > > -any comments on the below process and resulting trans description > would be appreciated....... > > > # USING THIS FORMULA from RWR and previous email discussions: > > for the trans material: > A7=Ts / ( Td+Ts ) > A6=( Td+Ts ) / ( Rd+Td+Ts ) > A5=Sr > A4=Rs > A3=Cb / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) > A2=Cg / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) > A1=Cr / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) > > # INPUTS > > Td = 0 # ASSUME no diffuse transmission (e.g. fabric threads are > totally opaque) > Ts = 0.03 # ASSUME that (3% openness factor of shade > "weave") > means fraction of light transmitted as beam (e.g. not scattered > diffusely) = 0.03 > Sr = 0 > Rs = 0 > Cb = 0.7 # Nominally "white" fabric surface (reflects 70% > of > incident visible light?) > Cg = 0.7 > Cr = 0.7 > > # CALCS > > A7 = (0.03) / (0 + 0.03) = 1 > A6 = (0 + 0.03) / (0.7 + 0 + 0.03) = 0.0411 > A5 = 0 > A4 = 0 > A3 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 > A2 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 > A1 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 > > # RESULT > > void trans my_shade > 0 > 0 > 7 0.73 0.73 0.73 0 0 0.041 1 > > > thanks, > > Kyle Konis > PhD Student > UC Berkeley > > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > =================== Rob Guglielmetti www.rumblestrip.org From Christopher.Rush at arup.com Thu Jan 21 11:10:42 2010 From: Christopher.Rush at arup.com (Christopher Rush) Date: Thu Jan 21 11:11:13 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric as a TRANS material type In-Reply-To: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> References: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> Message-ID: I would have guessed if your total measured transmission was 20%, and you know the openness is 3%, the 3% would correspond to specular transmission and the other 17% must be diffuse transmission, no? -----Original Message----- From: radiance-general-bounces@radiance-online.org [mailto:radiance-general-bounces@radiance-online.org] On Behalf Of Rob Guglielmetti Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:59 PM To: Radiance general discussion Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric as a TRANS material type Hi Kyle, I am not at all the materials measurement/definition guru on this list, but I do have some comments. First off, you should not use .03 for specular transmittance based on the openness factor. You should specify the transmittance. Have a look at the product specs for the shadecloth; somewhere there should be a reporting (however roughly it may have been estimated) for the transmittance of the shade. Next, even though in theory the holes are allowing light to pass straight through, there will be some scattering at that interface due to the weave (especially in the case of your white colored shade), so there will be some diffuse component to this material. And therein lies the rub: figuring out how much of a diffuse component... I recommend finding out the transmittance of the cloth, and than taking some fraction of that and putting that into the diffuse transmittance portion of the material definition. For example, if the shade has a transmittance of 20%, maybe specify Td = .05 and Ts = .15. I'd also recommend getting a sample; even if you can't measure it, you could at least observe it under different lighting conditions and then mix and match Td and Ts until you achieve L^ar (looks about right). =8-) - Rob On Thu, January 21, 2010 10:45 am, kkonis@berkeley.edu wrote: > Dear list, > > I am trying to describe a nominally "white" roller shade fabric with a > 3% openness factor as a trans material type. > > I don't have a real fabric on hand to measure, I'm just trying to make > sure i understand the material definition parameters and then to do > some studies varying the openness factor of a hypothetical woven > roller shade material. > > 1) I'm curious to know if by setting parameter A7 to 1 i am achieving > my desired goal of representing a shading fabric that acts as an > opaque sieve (e.g. a cheese-grater: light passes only through the 3% > of the surface which is void (my interpretation is that diffuse > transmission requires some portion of incident light to pass through > the threads) > > -any comments on the below process and resulting trans description > would be appreciated....... > > > # USING THIS FORMULA from RWR and previous email discussions: > > for the trans material: > A7=Ts / ( Td+Ts ) > A6=( Td+Ts ) / ( Rd+Td+Ts ) > A5=Sr > A4=Rs > A3=Cb / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) > A2=Cg / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) > A1=Cr / ( (1-Rs)*(1-A6) ) > > # INPUTS > > Td = 0 # ASSUME no diffuse transmission (e.g. fabric threads are > totally opaque) > Ts = 0.03 # ASSUME that (3% openness factor of shade > "weave") > means fraction of light transmitted as beam (e.g. not scattered > diffusely) = 0.03 > Sr = 0 > Rs = 0 > Cb = 0.7 # Nominally "white" fabric surface (reflects 70% > of > incident visible light?) > Cg = 0.7 > Cr = 0.7 > > # CALCS > > A7 = (0.03) / (0 + 0.03) = 1 > A6 = (0 + 0.03) / (0.7 + 0 + 0.03) = 0.0411 > A5 = 0 > A4 = 0 > A3 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 > A2 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 > A1 = 0.7 / ( (1 - 0)*(1-0.0411) ) = 0.73 > > # RESULT > > void trans my_shade > 0 > 0 > 7 0.73 0.73 0.73 0 0 0.041 1 > > > thanks, > > Kyle Konis > PhD Student > UC Berkeley > > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > =================== Rob Guglielmetti www.rumblestrip.org _______________________________________________ Radiance-general mailing list Radiance-general@radiance-online.org http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general ____________________________________________________________ Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses From rpg at rumblestrip.org Thu Jan 21 11:21:11 2010 From: rpg at rumblestrip.org (Rob Guglielmetti) Date: Thu Jan 21 11:21:12 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric as a TRANS material type In-Reply-To: References: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> Message-ID: <9ee9b97dc9564b9329dfdfe4cb547317.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> On Thu, January 21, 2010 12:10 pm, Christopher Rush wrote: > I would have guessed if your total measured transmission was 20%, and > you know the openness is 3%, the 3% would correspond to specular > transmission and the other 17% must be diffuse transmission, no? You're right Chris, at least that is probably a good starting point. From andrew.mcneil at arup.com Thu Jan 21 14:01:03 2010 From: andrew.mcneil at arup.com (Andrew McNeil) Date: Thu Jan 21 14:01:27 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Understanding rtcontrib In-Reply-To: <4B5318FB.90604@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Axel, I like your step by step documentation of your process. I picked up a few tricks along the way. I do have one tip for you which you may have already figured out give the time elapsed between your email and my reply. When combining your tregenza patch renderings you should use pcomb's -o option to use original pixel values instead of exposure adjusted values. The -o option needs to precede every image, so I'm not sure if it'll work with the wild card character. Alternatively you could use pfilt -1 -e 1 when resizing the tregenza patch renderings to explicitly set exposure at 1. I think this might solve the brightness issue you are having with rtcontrib rendered images. Best, Andy On 1/17/10 6:04 AM, "Axel Jacobs" wrote: > Dear all, > > I've been reading some of the very interesting presentations from the > last Radiance workshop and am now keen on finally getting to the bottom > of this rtcontrib thing. > > My aim is to do Dynamic Daylight Simulations, DDS, using rtcontrib > rather than DaySim. > > As I am going along, I am preparing more material for the Advanced > Tutorial. A usual, the notes advance at a leisurely pace, trying to make > one little mistake or discovery a time, rather than doing them all at once. > > I have put up some very early notes (really only just scribble with some > images) here: > http://luminance.londonmet.ac.uk/pickup/rtcontrib_lesson.html > and would be grateful for any feedback. > > This is what's there at the moment: > > - show that rpict is simply a convenient way of calling rtrace to > produce an image > - show that rtcontrib is a souped-up version of rtrace (bear with me > before banging your head against the wall over this one) > - show how rtcontrib produces individual images based on light source > modifiers > - show how this can be extended to different 'zones' using binning, e.g. > for daylight coefficients > > I have not looked at the mkillum-like functionality of rtcontrib yet > (pseudo-forward-raytracer?), and the model you see in the images doesn't > even have a window pane. > > All images under a glow sky (not the ones with circular 11deg light > sources) have an overcast distribution. Eventually, this should probably > be a simple glow without any distribution assigned to it, but I've used > a gensky material for now to be able to compare the absolute values of > the combined results which should match the rpict ones. > > The big show stopper so far is that I don't get the absolute values > right for a glow sky with Tregenza subdivisions. You will also see just > how weird the sky hemisphere looks in this simulation after the 145 > patches have been combined. > > Any hints are very welcome. > > Cheers > > Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general ____________________________________________________________ Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses From grobe at gmx.net Thu Jan 21 18:15:50 2010 From: grobe at gmx.net (Lars O. Grobe) Date: Thu Jan 21 18:15:59 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric as a TRANS material type In-Reply-To: References: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> Message-ID: <4B590A56.4040900@gmx.net> Christopher Rush wrote: > I would have guessed if your total measured transmission was 20%, and > you know the openness is 3%, the 3% would correspond to specular > transmission and the other 17% must be diffuse transmission, no? > Well, it is still a simplification valid only for normal incident angles, as the fabric has a thickness and the projected area of the wholes between the fibres depends on that incident angle. You will have light hitting the front of the fabric being reflected back, the "sides" of the opening, being scattered, light passing through the openings without touching any material being transmitted as specular, light hitting the fibres but being transmitted as diffuse.... You can assume to get a pretty diffuse reflection, but the 3% information will not be enough to accurately descibe the transmissive properties. This would require either measurements (we have used a goniophotometer for this type of materials) or a good model for the fabric where you could derive the raypaths for different incident angles from. Cheers, Lars. From Christopher.Rush at arup.com Fri Jan 22 07:25:44 2010 From: Christopher.Rush at arup.com (Christopher Rush) Date: Fri Jan 22 07:25:51 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric asa TRANS material type In-Reply-To: <4B590A56.4040900@gmx.net> References: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> <4B590A56.4040900@gmx.net> Message-ID: Good point about the thickness. If the shade is 3% open I suppose the expectation would be slightly less than this in pure specular transmission due to the thickness of the fabric. Lars, Does this agree with your goniophotometer experience with woven or perforated materials? -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Lars O. Grobe Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:16 PM Christopher Rush wrote: > I would have guessed if your total measured transmission was 20%, and > you know the openness is 3%, the 3% would correspond to specular > transmission and the other 17% must be diffuse transmission, no? > Well, it is still a simplification valid only for normal incident angles, as the fabric has a thickness and the projected area of the wholes between the fibres depends on that incident angle. You will have light hitting the front of the fabric being reflected back, the "sides" of the opening, being scattered, light passing through the openings without touching any material being transmitted as specular, light hitting the fibres but being transmitted as diffuse.... You can assume to get a pretty diffuse reflection, but the 3% information will not be enough to accurately descibe the transmissive properties. This would require either measurements (we have used a goniophotometer for this type of materials) or a good model for the fabric where you could derive the raypaths for different incident angles from. Cheers, Lars. ____________________________________________________________ Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses From grobe at gmx.net Fri Jan 22 07:58:44 2010 From: grobe at gmx.net (Lars O. Grobe) Date: Fri Jan 22 07:59:17 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric asa TRANS material type In-Reply-To: References: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> <4B590A56.4040900@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4B59CB34.6020101@gmx.net> Christopher Rush wrote: > Good point about the thickness. If the shade is 3% open I suppose the > expectation would be slightly less than this in pure specular > transmission due to the thickness of the fabric. Hi, fabrics will have a certain incident cut-off angle, where specular transmission gets completely eliminated due to geometric constraint. You can observe it with your eyes. Cheers, Lars. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3740 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100122/417bc520/smime.bin From Christopher.Rush at arup.com Fri Jan 22 08:25:59 2010 From: Christopher.Rush at arup.com (Christopher Rush) Date: Fri Jan 22 08:26:07 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Properly defining a roller shade fabric asaTRANS material type In-Reply-To: <4B59CB34.6020101@gmx.net> References: <0c7c37d52e1eaad11e2f70ccbac71fc4.squirrel@webmail.rumblestrip.org> <4B590A56.4040900@gmx.net> <4B59CB34.6020101@gmx.net> Message-ID: Another good point. It seems trans is not really valid for woven materials with any thickness in relation to the size of the holes. Maybe only for thin sheet metal with large perforations. Otherwise BRTD is required. Would you agree? -----Original Message----- From: Lars O. Grobe Hi, fabrics will have a certain incident cut-off angle, where specular transmission gets completely eliminated due to geometric constraint. You can observe it with your eyes. Cheers, Lars. ____________________________________________________________ Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses From jacobs.axel at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 16:32:04 2010 From: jacobs.axel at gmail.com (Axel Jacobs) Date: Fri Jan 22 16:26:27 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Re: Understanding rtcontrib In-Reply-To: <4b5a03de.a413f30a.7e5c.ffffc298SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4b5a03de.a413f30a.7e5c.ffffc298SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4B5A4384.9030202@gmail.com> Dear all, an update to the rtcontrib lesson is available: http://luminance.londonmet.ac.uk/pickup/rtcontrib_lesson.html I've had lots of feedback from Greg, and also wish to thank Andy who spotted the flaw in my pcomb command line. I clearly out-smarted myself with the image compression. Although there is some new material, I mostly re-wrote what was already there. The document should be much more readable (it has real sentences in it now) and consistent. I am rather pleased with the result so far, but also have to admit that I am somewhat shocked about the sheer size of the document. And I am less than half-way through the exercises. Anyhow, I hope that you all enjoy the read, and that it proves to be as informative to you as it has been for myself. Stay tuned. Cheers Axel From Rob.Fitzsimmons at fiserv.com Mon Jan 25 14:03:02 2010 From: Rob.Fitzsimmons at fiserv.com (Fitzsimmons, Rob) Date: Mon Jan 25 14:06:17 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Understanding rtcontrib References: <4b31255b.aa13f30a.0136.ffffc149SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <4B5318FB.90604@gmail.com> Message-ID: Axel, your link to the lesson archive is broken... you have http://luminance.londonmet.ac.uk/rtcontrib_lesson.tgz I think you mean http://luminance.londonmet.ac.uk/pickup/rtcontrib_lesson.tgz thanks for the tutorial! Rob Fitzsimmons -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100125/caf2304c/attachment.html From victorpirates at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 23:40:24 2010 From: victorpirates at gmail.com (victor li) Date: Mon Jan 25 23:40:27 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] "INDIRECE"in .rif file Message-ID: Hi: Does anybody knows why the different number of "INDIRECT" in .rif file could influence the result of illuminance in point calculation? I found that if i changed the "indirect" in .rif file, the illuminances in the defined grid are different even though the "ab" is the same in rtrace command. is anybody knows the reason? Best Regards! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100126/a6f8fa37/attachment.htm From tbleicher at googlemail.com Tue Jan 26 01:44:08 2010 From: tbleicher at googlemail.com (Thomas Bleicher) Date: Tue Jan 26 01:44:12 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] "INDIRECE"in .rif file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89355c0f1001260144m8e11bd1o7ae3e34e79f58d41@mail.gmail.com> Victor. *.rif files are not used for rtrace comands. Whatever differences you find they are not caused by settings in the *.rif file. It has been a while since I looked at the rad code but I'm pretty sure that INDIRECT only affects the "-ab" value of the rpict comand. Depending on your QUALITY setting is either INDIRECT = -ab or INDIRECT=-ab-1. To keep the -ab value constant you have to override it in with the "render=" option. If you get different values for rtrace calculations you either just see the typical error of the stochastic approach of Radiance or your other ambient options are not high enough and your result have a large variation. How do you use the rif file with rtrace? Can you send details of the rtrace commands and some info on the scene? Regards, Thomas On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:40 AM, victor li wrote: > Hi: > > Does anybody knows why the different number of "INDIRECT" in .rif file could > influence the result of illuminance in point calculation? > > I found that if i changed the "indirect" in .rif file, the illuminances in > the defined grid are different even though the "ab" is the same in rtrace > command. is anybody knows the reason? > > Best Regards! > > _______________________________________________ > Radiance-general mailing list > Radiance-general@radiance-online.org > http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general > > From victorpirates at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 22:34:22 2010 From: victorpirates at gmail.com (victor li) Date: Tue Jan 26 22:34:24 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] "INDIRECE"in .rif file In-Reply-To: <89355c0f1001260144m8e11bd1o7ae3e34e79f58d41@mail.gmail.com> References: <89355c0f1001260144m8e11bd1o7ae3e34e79f58d41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for your reply! It has been a while since I looked at the rad code but I'm pretty sure that INDIRECT only affects the "-ab" value of the rpict comand. Depending on your QUALITY setting is either INDIRECT = -ab or INDIRECT=-ab-1. To keep the -ab value constant you have to override it in with the "render=" option. I am confused by the " INDIRECT = -abor INDIRECT=-ab-1. To keep the -ab value constant you have to override it in with the "render=" option." In my setting, "INDIRECT would be a number, like INDIRECT = 5. For my setting in rtrace, other ambient options are high enough to avoid the mistake. And the INDIRECT is est in .rif file and rtrace is set in another file. My setting is as following: rtrace -I -h -dp 2046 -ar 32 -ms 0.063 -ds .2 -dt .05 -dc .75 -dr 3 -sj 1 -st .01 -ab 8 -aa .1 -ad 2048 -as 1024 -av 0.01 0.01 0.01 -lr 12 -lw .0005 -af 5.amb 5.oct < 5.pts > 5.dat RESOLUTION= 640 480 DETAIL= MEDIUM VARIABILITY= MEDIUM QUALITY= MEDIUM INDIRECT= 5 REPORT= 2 render= -i -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100127/176e5fe2/attachment.html From grobe at gmx.net Wed Jan 27 00:35:16 2010 From: grobe at gmx.net (Lars O. Grobe) Date: Wed Jan 27 00:35:23 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] "INDIRECE"in .rif file In-Reply-To: References: <89355c0f1001260144m8e11bd1o7ae3e34e79f58d41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B5FFAC4.6040003@gmx.net> Hi! > rtrace -I -h -dp 2046 -ar 32 -ms 0.063 -ds .2 -dt .05 -dc .75 -dr 3 > -sj 1 -st .01 -ab 8 -aa .1 -ad 2048 -as 1024 -av 0.01 0.01 0.01 -lr 12 > -lw .0005 -af 5.amb 5.oct < 5.pts > 5.dat > > RESOLUTION= 640 480 > DETAIL= MEDIUM > VARIABILITY= MEDIUM > QUALITY= MEDIUM > INDIRECT= 5 > REPORT= 2 > > render= -i As Thomas wrote, rtrace does not care about this. You can use a RIF-file when you pass its name to rad as a command line argument, e.g. bash#rad myRenderings.rif Now rad would read in the setting, and call the commands necessary to do all calculations as defined in the RIF-file. If you call rtrace, the rtrace-options apply. rtrace does not know anything about the existance of you RIF-file. The file name of the RIF-file does not appear on the command line you posted - how should rtrace know to use it? How did you arrive at the ambient parameters you are using? Especially ar 32 combined with very high ad amd as? Did you consider scene size and level of detail / irradiance variance? Cheers Lars. From tbleicher at googlemail.com Wed Jan 27 02:01:05 2010 From: tbleicher at googlemail.com (Thomas Bleicher) Date: Wed Jan 27 02:05:31 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] "INDIRECE"in .rif file In-Reply-To: References: <89355c0f1001260144m8e11bd1o7ae3e34e79f58d41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <89355c0f1001270201w71ecb2a0g7204b143ae133847@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 6:34 AM, victor li wrote: > Thank you for your reply! > I am confused by the " INDIRECT = -abor INDIRECT=-ab-1. To keep the -ab > value constant you have to override it in with the "render=" option."? In my > setting, "INDIRECT would be a number, like INDIRECT = 5. Sorry, I wanted to say that the value of "-ab" is calculated from the value for INDIRECT depending on your QUALITY setting. If you have QUALITY=low then "-ab" will be your INDIRECT value, if you have QUALITY=medium or high then "-ab" will be the INDIRECT value + 1. It was written in a rush. If you want to force a particular value for an rpict (or rvu) option you can add it to the "render=" setting (like the "-i" in your case). Rad will add these options at the end of the generated rpict command and so override all options that have been calculated from the QUALITY etc. settings. > For my setting in rtrace, other ambient options are high enough to avoid the > mistake.?[...] My setting is as following: > > rtrace -I -h -dp 2046 -ar 32 -ms 0.063 -ds .2 -dt .05 -dc .75 -dr 3 -sj 1 > -st .01 -ab 8 -aa .1 -ad 2048 -as 1024 -av 0.01 0.01 0.01 -lr 12 -lw .0005 > -af 5.amb 5.oct < 5.pts > 5.dat I wouldn't call "-aa 0.1" and "-ar 32" particularly high. Can you produce similar results for two calculations if you don't change anything? As Lars already wrote, the accuracy of rtrace is definded only by the parameters above. The settings below have nothing to do with it. > RESOLUTION= 640 480 > DETAIL= MEDIUM > VARIABILITY= MEDIUM > QUALITY= MEDIUM > INDIRECT= 5 > REPORT= 2 > > render= -i Regards, Thomas From jedev at visarc.com Thu Jan 28 16:19:53 2010 From: jedev at visarc.com (Jack de Valpine) Date: Thu Jan 28 16:19:56 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Re: [Bldg-sim] Daysim/Radiance In-Reply-To: <69a9bc0a1001281420h69898d85v1dec522b3771ec5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <69a9bc0a1001281420h69898d85v1dec522b3771ec5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B6229A9.2000001@visarc.com> Hi Karen, Thomas Bleicher had written an exporter (Sketchup to Radiance). You can download it from this location: http://code.google.com/p/su2rad/downloads/list Regards, -Jack de Valpine -- # Jack de Valpine # president # # visarc incorporated # http://www.visarc.com # # channeling technology for superior design and construction Karen Walkerman wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm learning to use Daysim. I currently have Autocad 2007 and the > free version of Google Sketchup on my computer. I'd like to be able > to use Sketchup to create the 3D geometry for importing into Daysim, > but I can't export to 3ds. Autocad 2007 doesn't export either. > > I tried downloading the 3DsExport for Sketchup plugin, but it doesn't > seem to handle the materials files well enough for an import to Daysim. > > I'd appreciate if anyone can let me know their methods for using some > combination of this software. > > Thanks, > > -- > Karen > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bldg-sim mailing list > http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100128/a3adbd32/attachment.htm From reinhart at gsd.harvard.edu Thu Jan 28 17:28:03 2010 From: reinhart at gsd.harvard.edu (Reinhart, Christoph) Date: Thu Jan 28 17:28:11 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] Re: [Bldg-sim] Daysim/Radiance In-Reply-To: <4B6229A9.2000001@visarc.com> References: <69a9bc0a1001281420h69898d85v1dec522b3771ec5c@mail.gmail.com> <4B6229A9.2000001@visarc.com> Message-ID: The latest version of Thomas' script exports a full Daysim project and allows you to re-import the simulation results (Daylight Autonomy etc.) back into SketchUp via a falsecolor plot. Very slick. Christoph From: radiance-general-bounces@radiance-online.org [mailto:radiance-general-bounces@radiance-online.org] On Behalf Of Jack de Valpine Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:20 PM To: Karen Walkerman Cc: Radiance general discussion Subject: [Radiance-general] Re: [Bldg-sim] Daysim/Radiance Hi Karen, Thomas Bleicher had written an exporter (Sketchup to Radiance). You can download it from this location: http://code.google.com/p/su2rad/downloads/list Regards, -Jack de Valpine -- # Jack de Valpine # president # # visarc incorporated # http://www.visarc.com # # channeling technology for superior design and construction Karen Walkerman wrote: Hi All, I'm learning to use Daysim. I currently have Autocad 2007 and the free version of Google Sketchup on my computer. I'd like to be able to use Sketchup to create the 3D geometry for importing into Daysim, but I can't export to 3ds. Autocad 2007 doesn't export either. I tried downloading the 3DsExport for Sketchup plugin, but it doesn't seem to handle the materials files well enough for an import to Daysim. I'd appreciate if anyone can let me know their methods for using some combination of this software. Thanks, -- Karen ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Bldg-sim mailing list http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100128/63bc1932/attachment.html From victorpirates at gmail.com Thu Jan 28 19:02:16 2010 From: victorpirates at gmail.com (victor li) Date: Thu Jan 28 19:02:18 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] "INDIRECE"in .rif file In-Reply-To: <89355c0f1001270201w71ecb2a0g7204b143ae133847@mail.gmail.com> References: <89355c0f1001260144m8e11bd1o7ae3e34e79f58d41@mail.gmail.com> <89355c0f1001270201w71ecb2a0g7204b143ae133847@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Lars: Actually, i know what you mean, but the result is strange, it is not what we expect. I donot know what is wrong in my setting. I used rad and rtrace command as follwoing: RAD 5.rif rtrace -I -h -dp 2046 -ar 32 -ms 0.063 -ds .2 -dt .05 -dc .75 -dr 3 -sj 1 -st .01 -ab 8 -aa .1 -ad 512 -as 256 -av 0.01 0.01 0.01 -lr 12 -lw .0005 -af 5.amb 5.oct < 5.pts > 5.dat In the .rif file: RESOLUTION= 640 480 DETAIL= MEDIUM VARIABILITY= MEDIUM QUALITY= MEDIUM INDIRECT= 5 REPORT= 2 render= -i So the result of rtrace command would donot matter with the seting in .rif. However, if i changed the "INDIRECT" and keep any other settings the same, the result of rtrace command is different. Do you know the reason? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/attachments/20100129/c1a0f788/attachment.htm From grobe at gmx.net Thu Jan 28 19:18:14 2010 From: grobe at gmx.net (Lars O. Grobe) Date: Thu Jan 28 19:18:22 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] "INDIRECE"in .rif file In-Reply-To: References: <89355c0f1001260144m8e11bd1o7ae3e34e79f58d41@mail.gmail.com> <89355c0f1001270201w71ecb2a0g7204b143ae133847@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B625376.7030906@gmx.net> Hi Victor! > Actually, i know what you mean, but the result is strange, it is not > what we expect. I donot know what is wrong in my setting. I used rad > and rtrace command as follwoing: Hm, I still do not get why these two programs could be related. > RAD 5.rif I guess this is a typo, and what you actually type in is in small letters (rad 5.rif?). What is the result of this, I think there is no view given in your RIF. Is there any result from the run of rad? I would expect nothing to happen, as rad has nothing to do? > rtrace -I -h -dp 2046 -ar 32 -ms 0.063 -ds .2 -dt .05 -dc .75 -dr 3 > -sj 1 -st .01 -ab 8 -aa .1 -ad 512 -as 256 -av 0.01 0.01 0.01 -lr 12 > -lw .0005 -af 5.amb 5.oct < 5.pts > 5.dat How is this related to your rad-call? Why do you have this low ar-setting? Where are all these values derived from? > In the .rif file: > RESOLUTION= 640 480 > DETAIL= MEDIUM > VARIABILITY= MEDIUM > QUALITY= MEDIUM > INDIRECT= 5 > REPORT= 2 > > render= -i > > So the result of rtrace command would donot matter with the seting in > .rif. However, if i changed the "INDIRECT" and keep any other settings > the same, the result of rtrace command is different. Do you know the > reason? Delete your RIF-file. Run the rtrace-command with the same parameters (maybe increase the ar first) several times, and compare the output in 5.dat. Cheers, Lars. From jacobs.axel at gmail.com Fri Jan 29 08:51:49 2010 From: jacobs.axel at gmail.com (Axel Jacobs) Date: Fri Jan 29 08:45:51 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] total -p and zeroes In-Reply-To: <4b5b5562.aa13f30a.77e2.ffff9f3eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4b5b5562.aa13f30a.77e2.ffff9f3eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4B631225.2040107@gmail.com> Dear list, I'm trying to use total -p to multiply two rows of data like this: $ echo -e "0 1 2 3\n2 3 4 5" 0 1 2 3 2 3 4 5 $ echo -e "0 1 2 3\n2 3 4 5" |total -p 2 3 8 15 I would expect 0 * 2 = 0 in the first column. Does the -p option not like zeroes? A straight-forward sum gives the expected result: $ echo -e "0 1 2 3\n2 3 4 5" |total 2 4 6 8 Regards Axel From gregoryjward at gmail.com Fri Jan 29 09:07:52 2010 From: gregoryjward at gmail.com (Greg Ward) Date: Fri Jan 29 09:08:03 2010 Subject: [Radiance-general] total -p and zeroes In-Reply-To: <4B631225.2040107@gmail.com> References: <4b5b5562.aa13f30a.77e2.ffff9f3eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <4B631225.2040107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C664345-0127-4544-967F-D446FCD75A3E@lmi.net> Hi Axel, This is really a bug. Total computes products by converting to a log domain, which of course doesn't work for zero. I can fix this problem, and will do so in the next release. Cheers for pointing it out. -Greg P.S. The reason for converting to log is that it allows geometric means to be computed for almost any set of numbers, which would overflow a straight product. > From: Axel Jacobs > Date: January 29, 2010 8:51:49 AM PST > > Dear list, > > I'm trying to use total -p to multiply two rows of data like this: > > $ echo -e "0 1 2 3\n2 3 4 5" > 0 1 2 3 > 2 3 4 5 > > $ echo -e "0 1 2 3\n2 3 4 5" |total -p > 2 3 8 15 > > I would expect 0 * 2 = 0 in the first column. Does the -p option not > like zeroes? A straight-forward sum gives the expected result: > > $ echo -e "0 1 2 3\n2 3 4 5" |total > 2 4 6 8 > > Regards > > Axel